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<ahynes> Hey, good to see another person here.
<ahynes> Do you use Second Life?
<eugenechan> Embarrassingly, no.
<eugenechan> Is there a back-conference on SL for this conference?
<ahynes> If there were other SL people here, I would try to set one up.
<ahynes> It seems like the island that Doug Thomas spoke about would be a good SL back channel
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<ircleuser> ping?
<ircleuser> w00t
<ahynes> ping
<ahynes> Hi.
<rianders> ping
<ircleuser> Hiya. Gus Andrews here. lemme change my username.
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<ahynes> Aldon Hynes here.
<gusandrews> did I miss anything?
<ahynes> No, not really. People are just starting to wander in.
<gusandrews> ok :) and now we break.
<rianders> break
<ahynes> Heh...
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<rianders> back
<ahynes> Hopefully more people will join us during this session
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<ircleuser> OK, two questions.
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<ahynes> Aldon Hynes here.
<gusandrews> did I miss anything?
<ahynes> No, not really. People are just starting to wander in.
<gusandrews> ok :) and now we break.
<rianders> break
<ahynes> Heh...
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<rianders> back
<ahynes> Hopefully more people will join us during this session
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<ircleuser> OK, two questions.
* ircleuser is now known as gandrews
<gandrews> First of all, does MTV think of activism as something that's useful for gaining market share?
<gandrews> Second, why are they getting so much airtime?
<gandrews> Third, do they see *any* problem with activism as a means to get market share?
<rianders> Good question.
<gandrews> "viral communities"??
<gandrews> jeebus.
<gandrews> Is anyone considering the conflict between a society which wishes to entertain itself all the time and a society which is set to actually do work to address its problems?
<ahynes> I was just reading/writing about cynicism and Diogenes, and I'm not sure that I see a problem with a tie between entertainmenet and activism.
<ahynes> If activism is fun, more people will be activist.
<rianders> If people realize activism is fun, then there will more activism.
<gandrews> I totally agree that activism can be fun
<gandrews> my question is whether you can make money off it

<gandrews> and I question whether *everyone* will be able to see activism as fun, as "fun" is subjective, and different for everyone
<rianders> Recently with DDR and Guitar hero people are getting off the couches. Maybe, something like this for activism would be good.
* gandrews plays DDR
* ahynes plays Stepmania...
<ahynes> My kids play DDR
<gandrews> Stepmania... isn't that In The Groove now?
<gandrews> I worked for thekm briefly
<ahynes> Gus, I guess the question is, is it okay for people to make money? To have self sustaining activities? (or perhaps make a lot of money, which isn't likely with non-profits)
<rianders> Making money means different things to different types of organizations.
<gandrews> My question, at a slight angle to that question, is whether a company which treats people as commodities, as MTV does when it calls the people it is trying to reach an "audience," will really be able to support people in making changes to a system in which suffering is a result of treating people as commodities
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<cambodia4kids-be> hi alden
<cambodia4kids-be> I'm sitting behind you
<ahynes> Hi Beth.
<gandrews> thatmeans I'm sitting in front of you :)
<ahynes> Gus, you wanna repeat your question for Beth?
* gandrews has been reading too much Frankfurt School this semester
<gandrews> My question, at a slight angle to that question, is whether a company which treats people as commodities, as MTV does when it calls the people it is trying to reach an "audience," will really be able to support people in making changes to a system in which suffering is a result of treating people as commodities
<rianders> I like that question. Tough one. Really how sincere can a company like that be.
<gandrews> it boils down to will the master's tools dismantle the master's house
<rianders> Or does the master even care about the tools?
<gandrews> point taken.
<gandrews> Current events as window-dressing for twitch games?
<rianders> Just saw your Frankfurt SChool post. Yeah, after that it's hard to find a way out of such a closed system.
<gandrews> yeah, so I'm sorry if I'm a little angry and knee-jerk :)
<rianders> np
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<ahynes> So, gus, did the 'How do we use the brand' comment also make the hair on the back of your neck stand up?
<gandrews> I was distracted.... :)
<gandrews> did it raise yours?
<ahynes> A little bit....
<rianders> I think it represent there is abulding corporate momentum. The will have to overblow key terms and say there is a business sense behind it.
<gandrews> I suppose it's better to use the brand in service of good than to use good in service of the brand
<rianders> a bulding
<ahynes> It echos, in my mind, your concern about compaies which treat people as commodities
<gandrews> The other thing that kind of bugs me is Darfur is Dying kind of sucks.
<gandrews> Parts of it were good, others were done poorly.
<ahynes> I must admit, I haven't played it...
<gandrews> Go do it now! :)
<rianders> http://www.darfurisdying.com/
<gandrews> ty!
<ahynes> My gut feeling is that it is good to see people starting to do these sort of games... Hopefully it is an example of the infancy of social games and we'll see even better games as people get the idea.
<gandrews> hopefully.
<ahynes> I was thinking about checking it out, but between the back channel and live blogging, I'm trying to do too many things at the same time.
<gandrews> :)
* gandrews shivers
<rianders> The stats are true
<gandrews> yup.
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<ahynes> I wonder if there needs to be a user run version of addictinggames...
<ahynes> Instead of them as editors, let the games emerge... Tag them... rate them...
<rianders> how about a casual game Digg site.
<ahynes> Yeah... Something like that...
<gandrews> Ooh, I like that
<ahynes> I was thinking about something like YouTube or Blip.TV, but for casual games.
<rianders> :-)
<gandrews> What if we could develop a casual game which involved generating and sending letters to congress?
<ahynes> Having a tool to make it easier for people to create casual games that include letters to congress... That would be a great tool
<rianders> If your letter could get scored for effectiveness that would great.
<ahynes> Something like that... Tie it into a Content management system, where people could see and rate letters...
<gandrews> I hesitate to generate games in which a computer judges qualitative human content
<gandrews> yeah, if it was human scored
<gandrews> I was thinking of something more like SETI
<rianders> An algorithm to do the evaluation would be tough
<ahynes> Human scoring could also encourage other people to come up with even better letters and learn from good letters.
<gandrews> things you do casually somehow get translated into change activities
<gandrews> Anyone here played A Tale In The Desert?
<rianders> An aggregating system and people reviewed would be good.
<ahynes> I haven't seen A Tale in The Desert... What can you tell me about it?
<gandrews> It is a gameworld in which human judgement is basically how you gain esteem etc
<ahynes> Interesting..
<gandrews> I've been playing it a little, still don't have much of a feel
<gandrews> Lots of art and sculpture development in it
<gandrews> which is really cool
<gandrews> because one of the things that bugs me about World of Warcraft is that it's so mind-bogglingly repetitive and mathematical
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<rianders> The game mechanic overwhelms the personality of characters.
<gandrews> Yeah, and I think players sort of play into that, you know? They let it.
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