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<ircleuser> sorry not sure what happened off I went :)
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<gandrews> yay!
<gandrews> go ian! go heather!
<gandrews> I am so totally not outing my politics here right now.
<gandrews> Here's the issue: If we openly talk about having a marxist or liberal-left agenda, we shoot ourselves in the foot for funding and public recognition... so maybe just vaguely calling it "games for change" is the best strategy.
<gandrews> PBS regularly struggles to stay alive under Republican administrations.
<ahynes> Or, does it even make sense to try to simplify the political spectrum to left versus right? It is sort of like talking about whether games are good or bad.
<gandrews> Good point.
<ahynes> I like the idea of games as an artistic medium...
<gandrews> yeah.
<ahynes> Every art form has social implications....
<gandrews> But if you limit the artwork to the sum of its social implications, it becomes pedantic and less artful.
<rianders> Erg. Running out of battery see you all later.
<ahynes> Exactly
<ahynes> (I'm plugged over at the side)
<gandrews> There's a power strip over here
<gandrews> over to the right of the room
<gandrews> (stage left :))
<rianders> Cool. Search for that. Cool.
<rianders> :-)
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<gandrews> that's the point I'd make.
<gandrews> is that assessment has its own assumptions
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<gandrews> wow, ok that was humbling
<ahynes> Yeah... very interesting.
<eugenechan> Links?
<gandrews> off the main conference site
<gandrews> the del.icio.us feed
<ahynes> check http://del.icio.us/tag/06-G4C
<gandrews> My professors always tell me we need to do quantitative studies first, and I never want to listen to them. that was sobering.
<eugenechan> got it. thx.
<gandrews> I wish we could make some change to get more people comfortable with non-quantitative studies
<eugenechan> What is quantifiable about games that makes sense?
<gandrews> Well, scores are
<ahynes> If a game gets people to write to congress, how many letters are written?
<rianders> He needs to press the full screen button.
<ahynes> How viral is the game? How many people does the average gamer bring in?
<rianders> lower right on menu
<gandrews> like I said I think that's a mismatch. We need quantitative measures for things which are quantitative, qualitative measures for things related to *human meaning*
<eugenechan> Okay, I agree with that.
<rianders> Think of a robin hood game, where play Robin hood. I
<rianders> one of the win conditions would be to give to the poor.
<rianders> Many people I know forgot to give to the poor when they played the game.
<gandrews> Learning is not quantitative hardly ever, and yet we persist in trying to measure it quantitatively (SAT, IQ tests)
<rianders> They learned something about themselves.
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<gandrews> But what is poverty?
<gandrews> When is it over?
<gandrews> Is it relative, or absolute?
<gandrews> Social change is also very hard to quantify on a personal level.
<gandrews> It's pretty easy to say "75% more kids ate three meals a day rather than 1."
<gandrews> rianders which game was this?
<ahynes> Or perhaps that carjackings are down 50%
<gandrews> Right.
<rianders> I think it's this one: Robin Hood was also the protagonist in the 1993 Sierra Online adventure game, Conquests of the Longbow .
<rianders> Conquest of the Longbow
<gandrews> So giving to the poor was not the goal of the game?
<rianders> It was a requirement to win.
<rianders> They all lost when they got to the end.
<gandrews> how close to the end were you supposed to give up the money?
<rianders> it was something you needed to do as the game progressed.
<rianders> There was I think a beggar who kept showing up.
<gandrews> ah
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<gandrews> I love how this video is ringed with all the sort of traditional hits you get on youtube.
<rianders> :-)
<gandrews> stuff people make for their friends
* ahynes nods.
<gandrews> now that's egalitarianism.
<ahynes> I've been promoting YouTube for getting political messages out....
<gandrews> also chaos. this conference is feeling more like information overload to me than GDC did, oddly enough. maybe because I'm wearing multiple hats today.
<ahynes> http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=ahynes1
<gandrews> are you gonna put that on delicious too?
<ahynes> I hadn't thought of it, but sure.
* gandrews sighs
<gandrews> Funders weren't always so focused on assessment
<rianders> i think assessment is being mandated federally.
<gandrews> that really blossomed under the clinton administration
<ahynes> I think it is part of the No Non-profit Left Behind Act.
<gandrews> heh heh
<gandrews> it was certainly a big part of americorps
<rianders> Also, earned value reporting is becoming the key way to make the payouts
<rianders> from the grants
<gandrews> really... so they're paying after the fact?
<gandrews> how are nonprofits supposed to pay staff?
<rianders> Everything has to be tracked now or you don't get paid
<rianders> It's an overhead cost.
<gandrews> didn't overhead used to be paid by grants?
<rianders> Some institutions take a 40% or more chunk here.
<rianders> There is a lot of homework involved in this grant process.
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